Isabelle Lasserre — Do you think Donald Trump can succeed in bringing peace to the Middle East?
Samer Sinijlawi — For the first time, the White House is occupied by a man who not only makes promises, but also has the ability to act. Donald Trump doesn’t care about Israelis and Palestinians; he simply wants to implement his plan. I think he will do so. And since this plan is the only one that exists, we must support it and participate in it. But it won’t work unless reconstruction is carried out in parallel with a process of reconciliation between Israelis and Palestinians. The destruction in the hearts and minds of Jews and Muslims is more serious than the destruction of the buildings and infrastructure of Gaza. With or without Donald Trump, peace requires a change of heart among Palestinians and Israelis. Today, the media on both sides are still stuck on October 7. The trauma is as raw as it was two years ago. This is not right. We need to change direction and think about the future. The Israeli and Palestinian media must move on. The solution is not in Washington. It is in every Palestinian and Israeli city.
I. L. — Or else?
S. S. — Or else history risks repeating itself. Unfortunately, I see similarities between October 2023 and today. Before the massacres of October 7, plenty of data concerning Hamas’ plans were available. Everyone knew they were preparing something. What was missing was not information, but imagination. No one could have imagined that they would do what they did. Two years later, the same lack of imagination is hindering the search for peace. The Israelis should turn to the Arab countries instead of talking to Paris or Berlin because, unless I am mistaken, they do not belong to the European Union! The Israelis must be convinced that they belong to the Middle East, that they can get along with the Arabs, and that Gaza can be something other than a jungle.
I. L. — How can Hamas be demilitarized?
S. S. — The disarmament and demilitarization of Hamas are considered the be-all and end-all of peace, its main objective. This is important, of course, but it is not enough. If the IDF has not managed to disarm Hamas in Gaza in two years of war, who can? And how can Hamas be eradicated in the West Bank? In this Swiss cheese terrain, where the two sides are separated simply by fragile rows of barbed wire, Hamas could repeat the massacres of October 7 ten times over if it wanted to. For now, it has decided not to do so, but it is clear that a slogan is not enough to achieve its disarmament. If another October 7 took place, it could be carried out with chemical weapons! History teaches us that every time the peace process fails, violence intensifies the next time around!
I. L. — So what does peace require?
S. S. — To establish peace, three things are needed: deradicalization, development, and demilitarization. If any one of these three ingredients is missing from the program, it cannot work. How can we deradicalize? Some people think that all we need to do is change the textbooks in Gaza’s schools. But that is not enough! Palestinians have become accustomed to radical slogans. We also need to monitor lessons and discussions in classrooms. We need to change the way Palestinians think. And Israelis too. But if we Palestinians are not capable of creating something resembling social democracy, like they have in Israel, we will not be able to solve anything. The two peoples are too closely linked geographically to be able to live side by side with opposing political systems. The Palestinians must change their narrative. We can no longer continue to ignore the legitimacy of Jews on our land. It’s completely stupid! The Palestinians must recognize the historical right of Jews in Israel. They have been here for 3,500 years. Just like us. Both peoples belong to this land. Israel exists not because it is the strongest country in the region, but because Jews belong to this land. Even if they were weak, they should be able to stay here. It is a right, not a possibility.
I. L. — Who can fill the political vacuum in Gaza?
S. S. — Elections. Everything else is absurd and stupid. We cannot end the disaster in Gaza without changing the leadership. To move things forward, elections must be organized very quickly. I am sure that many candidates will come forward as soon as the decision is made. And don’t tell me it’s not possible! If we managed to organize a vaccination campaign, we can organize elections!
I. L. — How should Hamas be dealt with?
S. S. — Hamas members will obviously have to renounce violence. In Gaza, the core of Hamas consists of 20,000 to 25,000 people. Outside this hard core, no one supports it. In the West Bank, they represent about 30% of the population. But Palestinians are fed up with both the destruction caused or provoked by Hamas and the corruption of Mahmoud Abbas. Mahmoud Abbas is the opposite of Volodymyr Zelensky. Since the beginning of the war, the Ukrainian president has been tirelessly and courageously traveling the world in search of support. He goes to support the soldiers on the front lines. He apologizes to the young people of his country for not being able to protect them. But since the war began, Mahmoud Abbas’s family has been living happily in Jordan. The sons of the Palestinian Authority president are studying at the best schools in Amman. In Gaza 600,000 children are living without schools or drinking water, but they each have their own jeep to take them to class. The Palestinians are paying the price for both Hamas’ violence and Abbas’ corruption. It is time to let them choose another leader. The Palestinians must convince the Israelis that they can change and have normal governance.
I. L. — How do you analyze the reprisals perpetrated by Hamas in Gaza today?
S. S. — Hamas is murdering anyone who disagrees with it or criticizes it. One of the drawbacks of Trump’s plan is that it has brought together all the Hamas fighters, who until then had been scattered throughout the Gaza Strip. Palestinians they don’t like are killed like dogs.
I. L. — Is the two-state solution still possible?
S. S. — It’s the only solution. A single state would mean that one side had defeated the other. But when the Palestinian state comes into being, Jews should not be forced to leave the West Bank. Those who want to stay because their historical roots are there should be able to do so. Perhaps 20% of them will remain. We will have to be flexible. The two-state solution is a question of will. The Palestinians will have another difficult decision to make, concerning the right of return. Refugees should only be allowed to return to the State of Palestine, not to their cities of birth if these are now in Israel. We cannot ask the Israelis to withdraw from Gaza and force them to accept five million refugees in their country! We will also have to learn to talk to the Israelis in ways other than by invoking human rights and international law. Changing hearts and minds must be the Palestinians’ strategy. But I am optimistic. I know the Israelis well. And I am sure that one day our shared humanity will save us. I don’t know why we are fighting; history could be so different. But I know that if one side changes, that will be enough to make the other side change. It’s up to us, Palestinians, to take the first step and change first.
I. L. — Why?
S. S. — Because, for us, it’s urgent! In Gaza, two million people live in plastic buildings. The Israelis, on the other hand, have time. They can stay like this for another ten years.
I. L. — How do you view the recent French diplomatic initiatives in the Middle East?
S. S. — Recognizing a Palestinian state was not counterproductive. But it was not effective either. The problem is that this decision was made in response to domestic political issues. The step was taken because pro-Palestinian demonstrations had caused street unrest in France. Recognizing Palestine was intended to calm the situation. The French government considered it a better lever to bring about change than imposing sanctions on Israel. But it is only a symbolic decision. Fundamentally, it means nothing at all!
I. L. — And how do you view Emmanuel Macron’s hopes for Mahmoud Abbas?
S. S. — By applauding Mahmoud Abbas, Emmanuel Macron is betraying the Palestinians. Mahmoud Abbas is managing to fool everyone, including the French president, when he leads him to believe that recognition of Palestine will help develop democracy in Gaza. In fact, the whole world could recognize Palestine, but it would be pointless as long as Israel does not take the decisive step.
I. L. — Does France still have any influence in the region?
S. S. — The American initiative has overtaken the French and Saudi Arabian project. Donald Trump’s plan leaves no room for any other plan. That is why everyone should rally behind it and work with the Americans. But the release of the hostages and the ceasefire were the easiest part. It will be more difficult to get the last soldiers out of Gaza. When that is done, it will mean that Hamas is dead and that a reconciliation agreement is possible. This will require a tremendous amount of work.
I. L. — Is peace possible with Benjamin Netanyahu?
S. S. — I sometimes fear that Israel will fall into the trap of double radicalization, both internally and externally. It is in the Palestinians’ interest that Israel not be subjected to too much external pressure, because that works against them. But Israel must also be convinced that it is in everyone’s interest for it to form a more open coalition. The question is not Bibi or no Bibi. Likud will remain the leading party. Bibi is the number one leader in Israel. He has been in power for 20 years. Perhaps he knows and understands Israeli politics better than anyone else... The key is a broader coalition. Bibi is a magician, he can even transform Likud into the Labor Party...
I. L. — What will be the fate of the Abraham Accords? Will they survive the war? Will they be extended to Saudi Arabia?
S. S. — In a way, the Abraham Accords were betrayed by those who created them, Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu, when they negotiated the release of hostages with Qatar and Turkey rather than with the signatory countries, the United Arab Emirates and Morocco. It was a bad idea to exclude them from the peace process because it created doubt about the strength of the Accords. The Emirates have invested heavily in Gaza, particularly in hospitals. Without them, there would undoubtedly have been a real famine. The Palestinians thank God every day that the Abraham Accords were signed before the war. That is why we did not understand why, even though they have always been loyal to Israel and the United States, the Emirates were not invited to Sharm el-Sheikh. No one thought about the consequences. To revive the Abraham Accords today, the American negotiators Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner, who make a good team, will have to bring them back into the game at all levels. Certainly, Turkey and Qatar exert influence over Hamas. But Hamas is only one part of the story in the Middle East. And the Emirates have leverage over both the Palestinians and the Israelis.
I. L. — Could Saudi Arabia make a move?
S. S. — It will not join the Abraham Accords without the creation of a Palestinian state. MBS does not decide everything in Riyadh. The king still has a say. Saudi Arabia’s integration into the Abraham Accords must be a process that moves forward as progress is made in Gaza.
I. L. — What mistakes has Europe made in the region?
S. S. — The British Mandate, first of all, was a catalyst. It did not pave the way for coexistence between Jews and Arabs. There was no strategy. After the Holocaust, the creation of Israel did not put an end to anti-Semitism, and did not prevent wars and bloodshed. You don’t solve a problem by moving it from Europe to the Middle East.
I. L. — How can anti-Semitism be defeated?
S. S. — By reviving political will, which Europe sorely lacks. This continent, so strong, so organized, endowed with democratic values, is being left on the sidelines of history, while Turkey is making history... It’s unbelievable! Leaders’ egos, domestic power plays, and politician rivalries are becoming more important than European values. Because of their divisions, Europeans can no longer influence foreign policy. Europe must review its strategy and become a player again.
