Gaza at the time of Trump’s plan

Nasser al-Kidwa was born in 1953 in Khan Yunis, in the Gaza Strip. He obtained a degree in dentistry from Cairo University in 1979. He joined the Fatah movement in 1969 and became a member of the Palestinian National Council from 1975. In 2009, he was elected to the Fatah’s Central Committee. He served in key roles such as the PLO permanent observer at the United Nations from 1991 to 2005. He was also the head of the Palestinian delegation before the International Court of Justice. Al Kidwa has been openly critical of the current Palestinian leadership and is an advocate for political reform within the Palestinian Authority. He was dismissed from Fatah’s Central Committee in 2021 after announcing plans to run a new faction in the elections alongside Marwan Barghouti. In July 2024, he presented with former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert a joint peace initiative based on a two-state solution. Both have been meeting with leaders around the world and bringing together Israelis and Palestinians, emphasizing the need for new leadership on both sides to move the process forward.

E. E.-P.

Emmanuelle Elbaz-Phelps — Mr. al Kidwa, you have recently been reinstated into Fatah, as a member of the movement and its Central Committee. What does this mean for you personally and what significance does it hold for Fatah (1)?

Nasser al-Kidwa — First of all, I wouldn’t agree with that description. You might say that there was an action to normalize the situation but I was not “reinstated into Fatah” because I never left it. I say this because I want to stress that I do not recognize the legitimacy of the decision that was taken against me at the time. It was not consistent with the bylaws. Nevertheless, I don’t want to focus on the past. I want to focus on the future and emphasize the positive attitude of the president [Mahmoud Abbas, NDLR], the Central Committee, as well as my own positive attitude, which have led to overcoming all the problems in this regard.

My return could be useful. We needed to come together to confront the extreme danger facing the Palestinian issue and the Palestinian people. I think I can be useful in this confrontation. And, of course, regarding internal affairs, it’s good for the organisation, Fatah and Fatah Affairs, and for me personally.

E. E.-P. — I’ve personally heard you being very critical of Mahmoud Abbas in recent months, calling him and his government “corrupt,” and stressing that no positive change is possible for the Palestinian people as long as he is the president of the Palestinian Authority. Where do you stand on these issues nowadays?

N. K. — Well, I haven’t changed any positions of principle, as well as the necessity of confronting the current situation, corruption included. And I’m not inventing anything. I think the government itself says that there is a problem with some ministers (2). So it is public knowledge. We need to confront it if we are to regain the confidence of the population. However, the dangers are increasing, affecting everybody, and we need to solidify our position and try to be ready to confront those dangers that are surrounding us.

Look what happened in Gaza: a war of unacceptable brutality. It is totally destroyed (3). Look at the West Bank: it is being taken over, and the colonization of the land continues. So it’s obvious that we are not in good shape, and we need to mobilize. Ourselves, our people, and also our friends.

E. E.-P. — We are having this conversation while Trump’s plan is being implemented. But you have reservations about this Trump’s plan, right?

N. K. — I want to be a diplomat and not use the word “reservations”. I think the plan plays well, at least at its beginning, in spite of the fact that there are still some serious Israeli military attacks and serious losses for the Palestinian people. This plan, at least in theory, prevented the deportation of the Palestinian people from Gaza.

E. E.-P. — In theory?

N. K. — Yes, because Mr. Netanyahu and his government are looking for a way out of the whole thing. But about the deportation of the Palestinian people, I must stress that there is no such thing as “voluntary deportation”. This is probably the biggest lie in the recent history of humankind. You don’t badly bomb people, destroy their life and speak of “voluntary deportation”. There is nothing like that. If they leave, this is forcible deportation and that is, of course, a very serious violation of international law. And it amounts to crime against humanity and maybe worse than that.

Now regarding Trump’s plan, the current Israeli government is not interested in implementing the plan. They want to go back to war and we need to prevent that. The Trump plan is ongoing but in all honesty, there are gaps that need to be filled and adjustments that need to be made.

E. E.-P. — Right now the Gaza Strip is split in two: half is under the control of the IDF, and the other half is ruled by Hamas. How can you transition from this to a Palestinian governance, especially when Hamas is far from being disarmed?

N. K. — Hamas saying that they are not going to participate in governing Gaza is not good enough. There should be a clear commitment to end their control over Gaza in all its forms: political, administrative, as well as security. Security means placing the heavy weapons under the control of the official Palestinian body. In addition, of course to measures such as preventing any re-arming in the future and dealing with tunnels and things like that. But I would also say that the door should remain open for Hamas to undergo some structural transformation into a political party that can then participate in the Palestinian political life, under Palestinian law. We should stipulate the conditions for that. This way, I think we can reach an agreement with everybody, including with Hamas. We have to understand that even if there is an international force, no country is going to send soldiers to disarm Hamas. We need to do this politically and then complement it with an international force as well as a Palestinian security force numbering about 10,000 to 15,000 soldiers or policemen. This has to be done with wisdom. I suggest we refer to the Irish experience and the term “decommissioning of arms”. We probably will need to do something similar.

E. E.-P. — According to Trump’s plan, the Palestinian government will come into Gaza only after reforms in the Palestinian Authority…

N. K. — Well, I don’t think that we need to wait for a complete reform of the Palestinian Authority. There should be some reforms. My return, for instance, don’t you think this is part of the reform? We need to deal first with Gaza. Because of humanitarian needs and political logic. Then things will expand, of course, and the completion of the Palestinian Authority’s reform will take place.

E. E.-P. — When you talk about the Palestinian Authority’s reform, you mean a political shift, elections, right?

N. K. — If possible. I don’t think that elections will be easy to achieve for objective reasons, even without referring to what President Abbas wants or doesn’t want. We have two million displaced persons in Gaza. We need to create something resembling normalcy for them before asking them to come to the ballot box and vote. And if somebody thinks that we can do that in less than a year, please be my guest! I would like to see how that would happen.

E. E.-P. — Let’s talk about the Israeli side of the story. Elections should take place before the end of the year. But what if Netanyahu is reelected and stays Prime Minister? How do you then get to “the day after” for Palestinians?

N. K. — We prefer a change in Israeli governance and politics. But at the end of the day, it’s the job of the Israeli people and we’ll have to deal with whatever they decide. That said, let me be blunt: the guy calling the shots right now is not the Prime Minister of Israel. The guy calling the shots is the President of the United States of America. Pleasant or unpleasant, this is a fact. So, we’ll see if he remains engaged and determined to implement the plan.

E. E.-P. — Even if Netanyahu loses the election, the current Israeli opposition is not pushing forward a real political alternative regarding the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Furthermore, in the public opinion, there is an enormous amount of pain and hate and dehumanizing of Palestinians. The same is true for Palestinians regarding Israelis. How is it possible to overcome that?

N. K. — Not only that. People, on both sides, are not in the mood even to think of a political solution. They want to take revenge. They want to spill blood. Not everybody, luckily, but many of them. We need to change that. And that could change only with the real end of the war. Only then, people will start rethinking their position. Because the bottom line is this: each side needs to see that it cannot annihilate the other side and if we cannot annihilate the other side, we need to work with it. We need to accept its national existence and we need to have a political solution with it. And honestly, after lots of thinking, the only available political solution is the two State solution. Smart guys would tell you that we should have a confederation. Ok, but a confederation is a structure among states, right? Like the EU, for instance. Fine. If the elected guys decide to go for a confederation, it’s their right. In our proposal, former Israeli Prime minister Ehud Olmert and I called for negotiations between the two states, on many things like actual borders, the nature of the relationship between the two states and more but we did not present a plan because we haven’t been elected. We are both out of office and this is beyond our authority. It’s up to the elected guys to do the actual offer and to negotiate with each other.

E. E.-P. — Mr. Olmert and you are promoting around the world, for more than a year, the plan presented by Olmert to Abu Mazen in 2008: a “State of Palestine alongside the State of Israel on the basis of 1967 borders living in peace and security on the basis of mutual recognition […] The annexation of 4.4% of the total territory of the West Bank by Israel…”

N. K. — Look, we haven’t invented the wheel after all. These ideas have been there. And Olmert himself said that he offered it to the Palestinian side in 2008. Unfortunately, it was not signed then. So like it or not, it will be around these lines: 4.4% swap. Maybe you can get 4.5%, or 4.6%. But in the end, it’s going to be on those lines.

E. E.-P. — Speaking of elected representatives - back to Palestinian politics: Hamas asked for the release of Marwan Barghouti (4). The Americans were assessing it very seriously but the Israelis are opposed to the idea (5). Do you think this will ever happen, and how would this decision weigh in for the Palestinian future?

N. K. — I don’t know. I think it should happen because it is the right of Barghouti and other prisoners to be free, to enjoy their freedom and to see the sun, at least after all these long years. I hope it will happen. Now, if it does happen, what does it mean for the Palestinian situation? We’ll see because nothing can be taken for granted. After all, 25 years in Israeli prisons is not something light. It is very complicated and it could lead to some serious changes in a person. So we’ll see what’s going to happen. We’ll see the meaning of the words uttered by the President of the United States in the interview with Time magazine (6).

E. E.-P. — Polls among the Palestinian population put him as the one figure who could reunite all the Palestinian factions. Is this not the case anymore?

N. K. — No, I didn’t say that it’s not the case, or that it is. Later on, in the form of the Palestinian Authority he might play an important role in this regard. That’s something to be seen.

E. E.-P. — Actually, when you were expelled from Fatah – not that you recognize it – it was because you presented a list for the elections and joined forces with Barghouti.

N. K. — No, No. The decision was taken at a time where there was no list.

E. E.-P. — Was it before you presented yourself with Marwan Barghouti on the “Freedom” list?

N. K. — Yes.

E. E.-P. — So what was the official reason for your expulsion?

N. K. — That I thought about it...

E. E.-P. — Which leads to this last question: next year, or in two years, whenever there will be elections in the Palestinian Authority, will you present yourself?

N. K. — If there is a vacancy – and at this stage there is no vacancy. They are only “ifs”. So we’ll see when we reach that point.

E. E.-P. — To be blunt, when you say “vacancy”, you mean when Abu Mazen is gone.

N. K. — Yeah, of course, he is now occupying the post, right? So we’ll see if he remains there or not.

E. E.-P. — Although the purpose of elections is exactly that: trying to replace the guy occupying the post for 20 years now. Are you telling me you will not run against him?

N. K. — Probably not, probably not. But again, I don’t want to discuss any hypotheticals at this stage. We want to proceed and see how things will develop.