Politique Internationale — What was it that drew you to industry in the first place? Was it chance, choice of studies, formative encounters?
Sophie Zurquiyah — Basically I liked sciences. At school, I was good at math and physics and those two subjects opened the door to an exciting universe. Coupled with the fact that I had good teachers who really encouraged me to work as hard as I could. My mother was an English teacher and she would have loved me to go into medicine. But that was out of the question for me! When I was an engineering student, I was exposed to fields that are very much industry-related: mechanics, IT, modeling, etc. In the end, everything gradually fell into place! When I first started out, I had the choice between two major industrial companies. I opted for Schlumberger because of the potential international career opportunities.
P. I. — Does this love of industry still drive you today?
S. Z. — It certainly hasn’t faded. Quite the opposite, in fact. Perhaps I forgot to mention that when I was studying I developed an appetite for engineering, modeling, the complexity of systems and projects... they are just some of the fields covered by CGG and they still fascinate me as much today.
We’re a cutting-edge company, specializing in underground ultrasound imaging on behalf of leading energy producers. Not only do we take part in the exploration and production of potential oil and gas reserves but we also help optimize these operations. These same technologies are also useful for carbon sequestration. Our processes also support the energy transition.
P. I. — From the outset, do you want to dispel the idea that the oil industry is indifferent to or incompatible with environmental concerns?
S. Z. — People need to stop pitting the oil industry against environmental concerns; it is impossible not to have such an important sector on board when it comes to the energy transition. CGG’s activities meet the needs of a rapidly changing industry. Do you really believe young people would continue to look at a company like ours if they thought that oil and gas depended on a standard blueprint that cannot evolve? When considering their career paths, these young people are seeking something meaningful. We need to prove to them that we’re useful, particularly in terms of ensuring we operate in such a way as to protect the planet. CSR is a policy component the oil industry has incorporated into its activities and that it is striving to reinforce. Assisted by partners such as CGG.
P. I. — To get back to your early career for a moment, did you ever have people tell you your chosen field was more suited to men, that they were more likely to do well in that environment?
S. Z. — Not really. When you first set foot in a graduate school preparatory class or in an engineering school, you quickly realize that girls make up no more than 10 to 15% of the students. It’s been that way for so long that we no longer even question this under-representation. Schlumberger breaks the mold because the company has long focused on the importance of gender equality and inclusivity. The company implements a concrete policy to ensure opportunities for women, on the basis of their skills. That is not to say that everything in the garden is rosy. As a woman climbing the ladder, there are always going to be some people questioning your ascent, saying you’ve only got to where you are because of gender diversity requirements. So you hear grating comments but they aren’t actually that common. My answer to that was that a lot of them had got where they were simply because they were men, and that it was time to make room for women with the right skills!
P. I. — What is it that holds women back when it comes to taking on responsibilities in industrial companies?
S. Z. — The factors explaining this situation are common to many companies and are not limited to any particular sector, industrial or otherwise. We know that women often find it difficult to it push themselves forwards; they are less willing than men to show off their qualities and seek promotions, sometimes torn between their personal and professional lives. Then there is procedural bias when it comes to selection which can lead to situations whereby women’s qualities and performances are under-considered, unless there is a process in place to counterbalance this bias. I’ll give you just one example: when a vacancy opens up, how many companies will spontaneously think about having at least one woman in the list of potential candidates? Last but not least, the weight of traditions and preconceived ideas is a major obstacle for women. Under the pretext that from the earliest age little girls are allowed to cry but little boys aren’t, people assume that women are unable to control their emotions. Should I mention maternity leave? Too often employers think it hampers a career, convinced that when they return to work women will not have the same level of commitment.
P. I. — The burden of preconceived ideas…
S. Z. — It begins very early. I remember one of my daughters, still very young at the time, coming home from school and telling me she couldn’t go into IT “because IT is for boys”. I can tell you my blood ran cold and I was keen to convince her that it was unthinkable to set such barriers. The message obviously got through because we never had such a conversation again, and now she does indeed work in IT! Quite apart from my own personal case, I believe in examples: life is about decisive encounters, some of which can steer you in the right direction. Notwithstanding the issues we’re tackling here, there are enough women in industry to give girls the idea there are even more.
P. I. — Does the situation differ depending on the country? Are there places where women have easier access to dynamic careers?
S. Z. — Let’s be more modest; are there countries in which women are treated the same professionally? I’ve had the opportunity to travel so it is easier for me to make comparisons. In the major communist or ex-communist countries, like China and Russia, the greater proportion of women in highly technical training programs is striking. In Brazil, many women find it easier to succeed in the workplace because they have greater access to support when it comes to running the household (which is still mostly their responsibility). The situation is diametrically opposite in India and Japan, for example, where society often takes a dim view of women who work beyond a certain age. In the United States, women are between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, they’re encouraged to go out to work and, on other hand, it isn’t easy to set up childcare. I remember the first time I was sent over to work in Houston. My neighbors were amazed that I was able to devote so much time to my work with two young children to look after.
P. I. — In terms of the way they manage a project, do you see any differences between men and women?
S. Z. — Let’s not fall into stereotypes. And there are a lot of them. A woman is said to be more disciplined, to work more consistently, to adopt a more collaborative approach and to see the big picture when tackling projects... Whereas a man is said to be a better leader, to be better at getting teams on board, to bring a more dynamic approach... The list is far from exhaustive. In reality, there is no answer to this question about a potential “gendered” approach to working. Some men may develop “feminine” traits whereas some women will adopt “masculine” traits in their managerial approaches. We’re talking here about the specific characteristics of each individual. Let’s also remember the importance of training: knowledge, experience- sharing, project management... these are all learned skills. Whether you’re a man or a woman, throughout your career, you grow and the company benefits from your increased expertise.
P. I. — During your career, have you strived to help other women advance?
S. Z. — I spent two years working in human resources at a global level. The roadmap was precisely that: to better identify the role of women in the company and see how they could take on more responsibilities. So I looked closely at the statistics to help me uncover the facts. By cross-referencing many pieces of information – training, seniority, career development, nationality, pay, attrition, etc., – it is far easier to identify problem areas and drivers for action. I worked on three priority areas for improvement: the first priority was to increase the percentage of women hired, right across the board. The second priority concerned the level of attrition among women, which was much higher than that of men, particularly at entry level. The third priority related to the promotion of women to the first rung of the management ladder: the percentage of women promoted was proportionately lower than that of men at an equivalent level. We were able to fix the latter two areas relatively quickly, thanks to proactive objectives. Lastly, we focused more specifically on high- level, high-visibility promotions to ensure the inclusion of at least one woman in the list of applicants, which meant they could be identified and recognized.
P. I. — So you’re campaigning for a proactive policy to increase the role of women in the company. Some countries have introduced legal incentive measures to achieve this…
S. Z. — We don’t have a choice. If we just wait for things to happen, for more and more women to be automatically promoted, we could be waiting a long time. In any case, it won’t be before there are enough women represented at senior executive level. These measures force companies to face their responsibilities. Let’s not be afraid to admit that we’ve got a long way to go. Take pay, for example: many women earn less than men do for the equivalent role, with sometimes very marked variations, depending on the sector and country. In the company, the picture is often the same: when you question salary differences, you’re told something is going to be done to fix it but that it has to be done over a period of time, which can be considerable. But, in reality, what prevents us from fixing it right now? Nothing. At the end of the day, we have to recognize the state of affairs and work hard to restore equity as soon as possible.
P. I. — Have you had the opportunity to promote women at CGG?
S. Z. — I arrived at CGG in 2013, five years before taking up my role as CEO. Enough time for me to understand the driving forces of the company. As it happens, CGG is ahead of the field because women make up 30% of the workforce, a good score for the industry. That doesn’t mean there isn’t ground to make up, as mentioned earlier – in terms of salaries, promotions, etc. – and we’ve been working on that. Today, there isn’t a company around that can afford to be without a proactive policy towards women.
P. I. — From a more business-oriented perspective, do you think the impetus you have given CGG differs in any way from what a man might have done?
S. Z. — I should start by saying that we need talent from across the board at every level to ensure the success of CGG. Decisions are taken in the interest of CGG, as well as its long-term future, in line with the board of directors. I don’t think there is a fundamental difference between the ways men and women do things, but you have to learn to accept that women can be as capable as men in all leadership roles and at the helm of a company and processes need to be put into place that enable them to come to the fore.
P. I. — In industry, a number of professions are feeling the strain. Does that create more openings for women in terms of wider recruitment opportunities?
S. Z. — Not all professions are feeling the strain in the same way. Recruiters are struggling to find suitably qualified engineers and technicians in numerous sectors. So the issue of training upstream is brought into sharp focus. If we take the example of female engineers, there are an abundance in areas such as the chemicals sector but they are markedly absent in electronics and IT. It is clear that the increased demand in some professions is likely to open up new opportunities for women. However, collectively, we need to encourage more of them into more technical/technological training programs.
P. I. — There is the health crisis and the economic crisis. Would you say that women have been more adversely affected than men, with their jobs at greater risk?
S. Z. — That is nothing new. A few years ago, I witnessed a situation in a foreign company forced to make cut-backs after a difficult period. Foreign workers, women and employees who had been with the company longest were the first to go. The health crisis had a bigger impact on women, who found themselves with greater family responsibilities, primarily due to the fact that children were home- schooled. Before we can achieve better teamwork in the workplace, we need more equality at home, but that’s another – extremely vast topic!